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Author Topic: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion  (Read 13879 times)

Trerro

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[October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« on: October 19, 2012, 11:04:17 pm »
Info on mods...
Tekkit: http://www.technicpack.net/tekkit/
http://thetekkit.wikia.com/wiki/The_Tekkit_Wiki

McMMO: http://mcmmo.wikia.com/wiki/McMMO_Wiki

Okie, let's figure out exactly how we're setting this up. Important things to discuss are:

1. Ban list: Which features shouldn't be used, or shouldn't be used for specific purposes?
I need to read through the mod list, and will post what I think should go and why later tonight or tomorrow.

2. Are we:
A. Attempting to preserve our world and seed as much as possible.
B. Preserving structures (and possible a couple of full chunks) on request, but getting a new seed.
C. Giving people who had stuff up starting resources, but otherwise starting over.
or D. Something else entirely.
My suggestion: B or C, starting biome that's not too hard to navigate and isn't arctic or desert.

3. Are we adding any additional mods?
Carole suggested MoCreatures, which I'd also like to see, assuming it's compatible of course, and I think that would help add both stuff to do with raising creatures, and some form of extra adventure with the new monsters.
That's the only one I can think of, the overwhelming majority of mods are not tech-compatible.

4. Are we changing anything, such as the difficulty, PvP flag, semi-private server status, or other basic status?
Personally I'd say no.

5. Is there anything we need to discuss that isn't covered by the 4 points above? Everything is open to discussion, so bring up *anything* you want to.
I personally can't think of anything not covered by the above 4.
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Sonya the fox

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2012, 11:22:45 am »
1. Ban list: Which features shouldn't be used, or shouldn't be used for specific purposes?
I need to read through the mod list, and will post what I think should go and why later tonight or tomorrow.
I still have to delve through the lists of stuff myself, but I'm thinking now that whatever people do on their own land is whatever, as long as it doesn't involve dropping a nuke... A Quantum Helmet has a utility task, for example, like setting up tall water towers without drowning early and often, from the inside.  We will still need a list of things that shouldn't be brought on group runs, and of course groups can establish their own rules.
Of note are the very high tier tools and armor in Equivalent Exchange (dark matter, red matter, gem armor), the various Power Items of that mod, and the Quantum Armor set in IC2.
2. Are we:
A. Attempting to preserve our world and seed as much as possible.
B. Preserving structures (and possible a couple of full chunks) on request, but getting a new seed.
C. Giving people who had stuff up starting resources, but otherwise starting over.
or D. Something else entirely.
My suggestion: B or C, starting biome that's not too hard to navigate and isn't arctic or desert.
Thanks to the efforts of Samhayne's testing, we may be able to refresh the resources of the world, including mod resources, without nuking every structure in the map.  I'll let him talk about it more, I still haven't gotten around to downloading the program involved to play with it myself.
3. Are we adding any additional mods?
Carole suggested MoCreatures, which I'd also like to see, assuming it's compatible of course, and I think that would help add both stuff to do with raising creatures, and some form of extra adventure with the new monsters.
That's the only one I can think of, the overwhelming majority of mods are not tech-compatible.
If it's compatable I'm all for having a greater variety of things to beat to death with a blunt rock.
4. Are we changing anything, such as the difficulty, PvP flag, semi-private server status, or other basic status?
Personally I'd say no.
Medium difficulty seems about right.  PvP flag being on would force a little more care in the friendly fire catagory, but isn't necessary.  We haven't had any real desire TO PvP amongst the players, so it's not like we'll be going through a controversial thing here.  It would actually allow for a Colosseum to be constructed, and with modified mob spawners we could even stage fights vs mobs rather than just PvP.  I think we're okay as far as 'server privacy' goes so far, we haven't had any problems yet and the ones we've had were a quick ban and done with it.
5. Is there anything we need to discuss that isn't covered by the 4 points above? Everything is open to discussion, so bring up *anything* you want to.
I personally can't think of anything not covered by the above 4.
There are a few things that need to be discussed and such with the mods, particularly the Dimensional Anchor and anything related to it.  These anchors will force a specified range of chunks to remain loaded and running, even when NOONE is around or even online.  First of all: can we handle this at all?  Second, how many chunks can we afford to have perma loaded at the same time?  Third: how do we allot this number?  Do we do it as a communal pool?  X per person?  Some combination?
There was something else, but I can't think of it right now, so I'm gonna leave this as is and make edits/posts when I can recall it.

EDIT:  For anyone who dislikes (or worse) the autominers and anything gained by them, you'll be happy to know I'm going to be frying a fair bit of the resources gained by it, partially because of the world used to gain them.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 01:11:07 am by Sonya the fox »

Dakon42

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2012, 01:13:32 pm »
I hate to go with such a bland response, but I'm good with just about anything. I'd personally prefer to just start from scratch, but I do understand that Samm has done a hell of a lot more work on his various structures.. and if he keeps them it really doesn't effect if I rebuild from scratch anyway. As for a ban list, we should be able to fairly easily populate that. We'll just have to go through the various extreme ends of the mods and see what they can do.

Samhayne

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 01:57:13 pm »
I made some test locally on my laptop (did not changed ANYTHING on the CC MC server), starting from an exact (local) copy of the current CC MC server, here is the results of my testing:

Test 1: Installing a brand new 1.2.5 server with MCForge, Redpower and IC2 installed as mods, copying the CC server world to it. I then started the local server and navigated the world in-game.

Result: works fine, Mystcraft and Buildcraft blocks and items just vanished from the world, without conflicts as it seems.

Test 2: Installing a brand new 1.2.5 server with MCForge, Redpower and IC2 installed as mods, copying the CC server world to it but with all regions files deleted (to force a regeneration with the same seed). I then started the local server and navigated the world in-game.

Result (same world portion):

Current Map
Regenerated Map

Test 3: From a full copy of CC MC server, trying to delete chunks from the world: Using MCEdit, I selected chunks and used the "prune" command (prune = erase everything but the selected chunks). I then started the local server and navigated the world in-game.

Result: the selected chunks were correctly preserved (including chests content), all other chunks are regenerated as we navigate around, most landscape is the same (using current seed). There is some difference (check the maps of test 2 for comparison) but if the preserved chunks are carefully picked, it should not be a big problem assuming we keep the same seed.

Test 4: From a full copy of CC MC server, trying to "re-populate" (MCEdit "re-pop" command) some chunks with resources: Using that command, it is possible to regenerate the ore blocks within a chunk.

Result: In the selected chunks, some non-empty blocks are replaced by ore (including mods ores!), gravel or dirt blocks; there may be more changes, but I did not noticed anything else.

Test 5: From a full copy of CC MC server, changing the spawn coordinates using NBTExplorer software: I updated the level.dat file by setting spawn coords to 0,66,0 (x,y,z coords).

Result: After deleting some player data files, I was able to force a respawn (just as if I connected for the first time to the server) and i correctly respawned in the vicinity of (x=0,z=0) so it seems to work.


Note that every map editing was made at the chunk level and by deleting chunks from an existing world. The reason is I felt the MCEdit 2D interface to be less cumbersome to use; the 3D interface allow to make custom selection (i.e. any volume of blocks) but the world must be navigated in 3D, which take a bit of practice to do. As time was the essence, I needed a quick way to do testing, so I stayed at chunk level.



Test conclusions:
-----------------

From test 1: It seems that removing mods would not cause the map to become invalid, as the affected blocks and items will simply be removed at the first chunk load, so there seems it is not necessary to restart from scratch because of mods removal.

From test 2: It looks like the current seed would allow to regenerate most of the current terrain, which mean that in most case we would be able to keep or transfer array of chunks without having terrain discontinuities. Exceptions are (so far):

- Carole's mountain would be regenerated as a desert (biome change) but the coastline is the same, which mean that if she want it to be preserved, we can keep the whole biome as it is (outlined area with 0range "o" in the following image).

- Large forest around my "Forest Lodge" would be regenerated as hills, with a different coastline pattern BUT there was already a terrain discontinuity in that zone; and regenerating the affected chunks (outlined area with black "x" in the following image) would solve it. I think I am the only one with something built in that area and I have no problem having that stuff deleted.

Reference image (Marked)

From test 3: Deleting chunks from an existing map is possible, as long they are carefully picked to make sure there is no discontinuities between preserved and regenerated chunks. In the image above, I marked all the chunks I picked during test with an "o" of any color; that include: Trerro's Castle, Carole's Mountain, my "bubble",my "Sky Dome" under construction and parts of the railway I built.

From test 4: Resources (including those from mods) can be regenerated in preserved chunks, there could be some unexpected changes as dirt and gravel can be placed as well. I think repopulation should be done only on selected chunks, case by case, according to the "chunk owner" decision.

From test 5: Spawn point can be changed! Which mean it is not necessary to restart the whole world to change its location, we can set it at any other place.



Final words:
------------

According to the test I made, if we keep the same seed, it is either possible to preserve the whole world and "re-pop" resources only OR to preserve only the chunks where something has been built and re-pop resources in those chunks (other will be regenerated WITH new resources)

It is also possible to create a new world with the same or a different seed but I did not tested the copy/pasting functionalities of MCEdit yet, it seems to be more flexible than working with chunks, but also more complex. Also, we must keep in mind that using a different seed could result in having biome/terrain/cave discontinuities around preserved structures.

In light of that, my choice would be to keep the same seed and edit the existing map to preserve only the chunks where something has been built (basically choice A with the least possible amount of preserved chunks). That way, people who want to keep what they have built will not "deface" the landscape since regenerated surrounding chunks will match preserved ones, and people who want to start from scratch will have modded resources available near the spawn point. We could also imagine to move some structures at a different place in the same world, but I do not have any clues on the feasability of that on a large scale.

-Sam

Added note: A full map of the world is also available, but curiously, the image does not show up on IE browser...! (I used Waterfox to display it)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 08:27:00 pm by Samhayne »

Samhayne

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 12:52:53 pm »
Now my two cents for the other topics:

1. Ban list:

Basically I (naively) question myself on the utility of a strict ban list: Since the server is not PvP and Minecraft game is not competition-oriented, as long as you do not nuke other player's stuff or bash/deface what they built (i.e. griefing) or lag the server, I think it is your own problem if you choose to use or not to use this or that stuff.

That put aside, here is what I think is...

...overpowered:

- (IC2) Quantum Bodyarmor, Boots & Leggings

- (IC2) Nano Saber; altough I would reconsider if we add MoCreature ogres for example

- (EE) Red Katar (more powerful than Nano saber)

- (EE) Gem Armor (all pieces)


...overpowered but has alternative use:

- (IC2) Quantum Helmet; allow underwater breathing. If scuba helmet and compressed air cells (which would be more realistic) are not available - as it this the case in the current server -this is the only non-enchanted alternative to stay longer underwater. (Gem armor helmet has the same ability, but is even more overpowered)


...a bit overpowered but still can be fun to use:

- (EE) Red/Dark Matter Armor, Tool and Weapons; especially if we add aggressive mobs from MoCreatures, like ogres, werewolves, sharks, etc...

- (EE) Various "power items"


...not so overpowered and that I would personally prefer NOT be banned:

- (IC2) Jetpack (either standard or electric); simplify greatly the building near cliffs

- (IC2) Diamond Drill; simplify greatly custom tunnel/large cave digging.


2. Current world fate:

I already wrote it in (lenghty) previous post. In short:

- Keep the same seed
- Preserve the least possible amount of chunks (player's homes and other built areas)
- Re-pop (regenerate ores/dirt/gravel/etc...) in preserved chunks if the player who has his/her stuff in it want it
- Delete and regenerate every other chunk
- Relocate spawn zone to any place we consider appropriate


3. Additional mods:

- MoCreatures looks nice, if it is compatible I am OK with it (but we may keep this in mind when discussing point 1)

- Anyone ever used "More Paintings" mod? (or am I the only one to decorate my home?)


4. Gameplay/Server settings:

No PvP = Ok for me (I prefer PvE)
Med difficulty = Ok for me (please do not downgrade to "easy"...!)
Server privacy = Current settings ok for me


5. Miscellaneous

The second I saw the Dimensional Anchor wiki description, I thought about server stability... What about "soft" banning it for now? (i.e. agreeing not to use it before testing server stability without it)

-Sam
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 03:37:18 pm by Samhayne »

Dakon42

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 05:34:28 am »
I haven't tried more paintings, but it could be neat. I do like to decorate!

Your ban list has a lot of the same things I was going to propose. Pretty much anything red matter is kind of insane. Even the armor, while not necessarily game breaking, is.. a little much.

I'd also say any auto-miner of any sort is a bad thing. Not only does it sort of.. take some of the fun out of gathering resources, but it's just plain ugly. Giant 9x9 holes to bedrock suck.. or the ones like Sonya's drill mining out the bottom 20 squares above bedrock is bad too. On a real world, and all that.

As for the dimensional anchor.. why even use it though? I think that thing looks unstable as hell, and a problem with it is.. if it DOES end up breaking the server, it's one of those things we may not be able to unbreak.

Why keep the same seed, Samm? Keeping the stuff that was built is one thing, but.. eh. I don't entirely like the seed we have. Snow and ice was cool ( I built a castle out of the stuff! ) but it's not entirely friendly for newbies.

Plus I believe that seed isn't that seed anymore anyway.

Samhayne

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 09:19:19 am »
I haven't tried more paintings, but it could be neat. I do like to decorate!

Your ban list has a lot of the same things I was going to propose. Pretty much anything red matter is kind of insane. Even the armor, while not necessarily game breaking, is.. a little much.

I'd also say any auto-miner of any sort is a bad thing. Not only does it sort of.. take some of the fun out of gathering resources, but it's just plain ugly. Giant 9x9 holes to bedrock suck.. or the ones like Sonya's drill mining out the bottom 20 squares above bedrock is bad too. On a real world, and all that.

Agreed, but I will point the difference between BC autominer - which is basically a big hole driller - and IC Miner, which only target ore blocks in a specific range around a vertical axis. I also point that Sonya's (complex) mining machine is based on RP tech (frame, frame motors and block breakers if I am right), and banning that would mean banning a nice feature of the RP mod. I would personally prefer to rely on players self-discipline to limit the use of that kind of machine to specific areas (i.e. not digging under your neighbor's home), than to limit everyone freedom.

As for the dimensional anchor.. why even use it though? I think that thing looks unstable as hell, and a problem with it is.. if it DOES end up breaking the server, it's one of those things we may not be able to unbreak.

Why keep the same seed, Samm? Keeping the stuff that was built is one thing, but.. eh. I don't entirely like the seed we have. Snow and ice was cool ( I built a castle out of the stuff! ) but it's not entirely friendly for newbies.

As I pointed in my first post (test 5), the spawn zone can be moved to any place we want, and according to this regenerated partial map (based on the current seed) there is already a more friendly area west of the original spawn zone (x=0, z=0). I can also generate an extended map of this area if we want to look around; checking the current full map (may not display with IE, try another browser) would already give us an idea of what could be regenerated further out. One of the feature of Minecraft is the near limitless of the world, there will always be a friendly area available if we mind to look around.

Plus I believe that seed isn't that seed anymore anyway.

As I also pointed in my first post, the test I made (test 2) seems to indicate the current seed allow to regenerate the same landscape in most of the world (check the partial maps: Current - Regenerated). Landscape is the same around nearly every built areas, with the exceptions evoked in my first post (which both have a solution in case of a transfer).

My hypothesis for differences is that - at some point - the seed processing got changed between MC versions, chunks generated with an older version sometimes do not match newer chunks; that explain why most areas looks the same but with differences in some areas. For the biome difference around Carole mountain, I assume the change of MC version could as well alter the biome type in certain areas.

Finally, if we go for a new seed, then we would better go for a full restart (which I would not like) otherwise it is nearly certain that the area around "preserved" chunks will not match the preserved chunks (biome, terrain level, coastline, caves, etc...). If we go with cutting/pasting specific parts (not chunk-based), unless there is a map editing guru around here, the only existing structure which could be easily transferred would be Trerro's castle, as it is the only one which do not "merge" with the landscape (easy cut/paste); try using MCEdit 3D interface and you will see what I mean.

-Sam
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 09:50:22 am by Samhayne »

Sonya the fox

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 12:56:13 pm »
I am in full agreement with Sam as things are at the time of writing this post.  I do want to prod at one thing: the PvP setting.  I believe everyone is in full agreement that we do not want 'open PvP', but there are a couple of other uses for the flag: friendly fire in caves (would certainly make things more...interesting.)  and the option to, if anyone so desired, an arena that I'm considering building still, especially since Never Enough Items will give me the ability to make mob spawners of different kinds (I'll limit the usage of such things, gonna be interesting to make them work with it as is.

As for the autominers: I am in agreement that the BC Quarry is not a pretty toy, the IC2 Miner is as Sam said the least destructive, and it also has the ability to while pulling out of the ground to fill in the vertical drop to bedrock that it dug.  My planet eater is, as it was last used, drilling a 16 wide by 6 tall tunnel, but I do not really want to leave such an unsightly hole in the world and so will probably not use it, not as a mining machine.  I'm not about to try and have any components to it banned for they all have so many uses, and the original version of the thing, the Basher Lemming, was only 3x4 and whose purpose was to make tunnels, not collect resources, which would be quite useful if Sam did something like a subway with his rails.

Regarding the paintings mod: never heard of it.

World seed:  The seed will 'almost' recreate the world as we know it, but because of the version change some inconsistancies will occur.  This is also why the spawn is out in the ocean, which it will not be once this is all done.  There are plenty of places that are snow ice and water, one must merely be a little further out, sorry that we all started in a frozen wasteland and grew from there, I actually kinda like my lakes of lava and ice right next to eachother.
If we use the Nether Ores mod out of Tekkit, me and you (Sam) are gonna have to go in there and mark out where we need to shelter from the repopulation of ores, just one of those getting into my lava lair will probably shatter a hefty chunk of it.

Dimensional Anchor: Hmm..why to use it...well, one idea would be to have a big subdivided farm and a communal machine shop all within a 9 chunk area, then they could stay on allll the time.  Perhaps establish a linear/circular subway route and have the anchor on one of the carts that would be in the train (yes we can link carts together, see RailCraft in the tekkit wiki).  That would enable one train going around to all of the stops on a semi-regular timing.  These are not "Hey let's do this right away!", these are ideas of what they could be used for as opposed to just being junk whose only purpose is to destabalize the server.

Trerro

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2012, 02:29:11 pm »
One thing to be clear on with the ban list: It's a socially agreed rule list, not something that actually turns stuff off. A ban on RP automining means just that - we agree to not use those parts for that specific purpose - go ahead and make airships, flying castles, intricate block puzzles, and all sorts of cool stuff with the machinery... just don't extract resources with it. A ban on quantum armor doesn't mean you can't make an arena with a box of the stuff, where everyone's invincible and the goal is to eject your opponent into a void pit. It just means don't use it in any form of normal play - if such an arena exists, the armor should either be in that box or in the void when you leave. Etc.

Filling in the hole replaces a problem with a different problem... sure, the unsightly holes are gone, but now cavers have to guess what parts of the world actually still have resources in them.

Paintings: I actually made real use of the original set (one of my castle's hallways is a gallery), and adding more would be nice. I also remember there being a mod that adds a giant pile of blocks, none of which have any actual function beyond being blocks, but it gives you a toolkit to make all sorts of cool-looking stuff. This kind of stuff is great, and it has zero direct impact on gameplay, so should fall in the "if at least a few people want it and it doesn't conflict with anything, add it" category. Please link the mod in question, so we can answer the "will it work with this stuff" question.

The anchor can be a time bomb. If we have an anchor attached to an automatically crashing machine, we better hope someone has a way to reach it and shut it down before the crash... because if we don't, that's it. The world is stuck in an unbreakable crash loop, and we lose days or weeks of progress - to whenever someone last got around to making a backup. While this could theoretically happen with a player and a badly timed /save-all, it's far, far, more likely to occur with anchors serving as invisible players.

PvP: The "you need to actually aim" factor can be interesting, and of course being able to run arenas without having to keep restarting the server to toggle the flag would be welcome, but accidental kills will happen too, and we'll have to decide how much of a pain in the tail they are. IMO, not enough of one to negate the benefits. Also of note, because disabling this is "set a 1 to 0, restart the server, done in 30 seconds", this is the sort of thing that it's easy for the community to change its mind on if it ends up doing more harm than good - which seems unlikely. I say go for it.

Nano sabre vs. ogres: I'd say it's *still* too strong, even with them. IIRC, the strongest ogre has 30 hearts and is intended to be a miniboss of sorts. A nanosabre will kill him in 3 regular hits, or 1 regular and a crit, totally removing any threat he'd pose.

My main issue with our seed is the arctic start, and lack of easy access to normally common things like sand that results. Moving the spawn just ejects newbies from the developed part of the world... it's not like any player keeping his buildings is going to move his bed. That said, this isn't a huge issue... we can always build a Nether rail line to said resources or something. I'd rather a new seed, but if we can't make stuff fit without keeping the current, so be it.

Another thing I think we need to discuss is indirect automining. IC can spawn items directly through UU, EE can turn anything into diamonds, IC can grow iron on plants (...which EE can then turn into diamonds at I believe 32:1)... etc. This won't physically rip up the world like miners do, but it creates 2 of the other major problems - it encourages tabbing out and letting the game play itself instead of any active form of play, and it makes adventuring a negative resource gain (since you'd leave your farm).

I also recommend banning the nano suit, not just quantum armor. While not as obviously broken, I'm pretty sure that's either unbreakable diamond armor, or unbreakable diamond++ armor. It has to be recharged, yes, but this has no cost other than a trip to town.
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Samhayne

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Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 01:01:18 pm »
Paintings: I actually made real use of the original set (one of my castle's hallways is a gallery), and adding more would be nice. I also remember there being a mod that adds a giant pile of blocks, none of which have any actual function beyond being blocks, but it gives you a toolkit to make all sorts of cool-looking stuff. This kind of stuff is great, and it has zero direct impact on gameplay, so should fall in the "if at least a few people want it and it doesn't conflict with anything, add it" category. Please link the mod in question, so we can answer the "will it work with this stuff" question.

Link to the mod: More Painting!

The anchor can be a time bomb. If we have an anchor attached to an automatically crashing machine, we better hope someone has a way to reach it and shut it down before the crash... because if we don't, that's it. The world is stuck in an unbreakable crash loop, and we lose days or weeks of progress - to whenever someone last got around to making a backup. While this could theoretically happen with a player and a badly timed /save-all, it's far, far, more likely to occur with anchors serving as invisible players.

To solve that problem it is still possible to edit the world with MCEdit and delete the "offending" chunk (i.e. the chunk containing the anchor and/or the crashing machine). It would mean losing everything that is in that chunk though.

My main issue with our seed is the arctic start, and lack of easy access to normally common things like sand that results. Moving the spawn just ejects newbies from the developed part of the world... it's not like any player keeping his buildings is going to move his bed. That said, this isn't a huge issue... we can always build a Nether rail line to said resources or something. I'd rather a new seed, but if we can't make stuff fit without keeping the current, so be it.

I pruned most built area (at chunk level) in a copy of the current world as it was on 24 Oct. 2012, regenerating all other chunks around those areas. That mean all mods resources (copper, tin, etc...) now populate every chunk which was not preserved. The preserved chunks are outlined with black lines and usually got a label with the (assumed) owner/builder of structures in that area. So, basically, this map show the world as it would be regenerated if with keep the same seed and preserve some chunks (between 200 and 300 of them).

Partial_Map_Regenerated_20121024

Please note that as I did not knew exactly how far the underground built parts go, it may be necessary to add a few chunks to preserve underground structures. Also, I assumed the ice castle to be built by Dak and the wood buildings in the north east by Sonya; if this is not correct, my apologies, but there was no clues there to identify the builder. There was also that big amount of structure a bit south-east of the (0,0) coords, I did not included it in the preserved zone but it can be added as well: the regenerated chunks terrain matched perfectly what is currently on the server. Finally, the only preserved part which do not match the seed regeneration is Carole mountain, reason why the preserved area is so large there.

Another thing I think we need to discuss is indirect automining. IC can spawn items directly through UU, EE can turn anything into diamonds, IC can grow iron on plants (...which EE can then turn into diamonds at I believe 32:1)... etc. This won't physically rip up the world like miners do, but it creates 2 of the other major problems - it encourages tabbing out and letting the game play itself instead of any active form of play, and it makes adventuring a negative resource gain (since you'd leave your farm).

IC2 can also turn coal into diamond (at 64:1) but with that ratio, I doubt it would be interesting and you still need to create the coal. Beside that, I agree the most "balance breaking" mod seems to be EE so it may be the mod to nerf first; but I never tried it so I will not elaborate. For the IC2 crops, I still have to see an iron or gold generating plant; and even if it is possible and "profitable" I assume it would quickly become boring to (literally) wait for plant to grow to get resources.

Anyway, on a general point of view, even if a player is generating resources like there is no tomorrow, I still fail to see how it will "break the game" for other players; Minecraft is not a competition-oriented game: you decide what your goal is and as long other players do not grief or kill you, they do not prevent you from digging underground and mine resources "by hand" or going out by night to hunt creepers with your bare fists.

I also recommend banning the nano suit, not just quantum armor. While not as obviously broken, I'm pretty sure that's either unbreakable diamond armor, or unbreakable diamond++ armor. It has to be recharged, yes, but this has no cost other than a trip to town.

A full (unenchanted) Diamond suit give 80% damage reduction, a full nano suit give 90% damage reduction BUT I suspect diamond suit durability is superior to nano suit electric charge (i.e. When fighting, a nano suit will be discharged long before a diamond suit break) and the diamond suit can be enchanted, while the nano suit cannot. So basically, as far as I can see, it is a choice between possible enchantment and superior durability with one way use vs. multiple uses with less "autonomy".

Added note: I did not tested it but some sources indicate a diamond suit can be improved up to 98% damage reduction through enchantments.

-Sam
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 01:38:21 pm by Samhayne »