1

Minecraft / Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion

« on: November 02, 2012, 01:01:18 pm »

Paintings: I actually made real use of the original set (one of my castle's hallways is a gallery), and adding more would be nice. I also remember there being a mod that adds a giant pile of blocks, none of which have any actual function beyond being blocks, but it gives you a toolkit to make all sorts of cool-looking stuff. This kind of stuff is great, and it has zero direct impact on gameplay, so should fall in the "if at least a few people want it and it doesn't conflict with anything, add it" category. Please link the mod in question, so we can answer the "will it work with this stuff" question.

Link to the mod: More Painting!

The anchor can be a time bomb. If we have an anchor attached to an automatically crashing machine, we better hope someone has a way to reach it and shut it down before the crash... because if we don't, that's it. The world is stuck in an unbreakable crash loop, and we lose days or weeks of progress - to whenever someone last got around to making a backup. While this could theoretically happen with a player and a badly timed /save-all, it's far, far, more likely to occur with anchors serving as invisible players.

To solve that problem it is still possible to edit the world with MCEdit and delete the "offending" chunk (i.e. the chunk containing the anchor and/or the crashing machine). It would mean losing everything that is in that chunk though.

My main issue with our seed is the arctic start, and lack of easy access to normally common things like sand that results. Moving the spawn just ejects newbies from the developed part of the world... it's not like any player keeping his buildings is going to move his bed. That said, this isn't a huge issue... we can always build a Nether rail line to said resources or something. I'd rather a new seed, but if we can't make stuff fit without keeping the current, so be it.

I pruned most built area (at chunk level) in a copy of the current world as it was on 24 Oct. 2012, regenerating all other chunks around those areas. That mean all mods resources (copper, tin, etc...) now populate every chunk which was not preserved. The preserved chunks are outlined with black lines and usually got a label with the (assumed) owner/builder of structures in that area. So, basically, this map show the world as it would be regenerated if with keep the same seed and preserve some chunks (between 200 and 300 of them).

Partial_Map_Regenerated_20121024

Please note that as I did not knew exactly how far the underground built parts go, it may be necessary to add a few chunks to preserve underground structures. Also, I assumed the ice castle to be built by Dak and the wood buildings in the north east by Sonya; if this is not correct, my apologies, but there was no clues there to identify the builder. There was also that big amount of structure a bit south-east of the (0,0) coords, I did not included it in the preserved zone but it can be added as well: the regenerated chunks terrain matched perfectly what is currently on the server. Finally, the only preserved part which do not match the seed regeneration is Carole mountain, reason why the preserved area is so large there.

Another thing I think we need to discuss is indirect automining. IC can spawn items directly through UU, EE can turn anything into diamonds, IC can grow iron on plants (...which EE can then turn into diamonds at I believe 32:1)... etc. This won't physically rip up the world like miners do, but it creates 2 of the other major problems - it encourages tabbing out and letting the game play itself instead of any active form of play, and it makes adventuring a negative resource gain (since you'd leave your farm).

IC2 can also turn coal into diamond (at 64:1) but with that ratio, I doubt it would be interesting and you still need to create the coal. Beside that, I agree the most "balance breaking" mod seems to be EE so it may be the mod to nerf first; but I never tried it so I will not elaborate. For the IC2 crops, I still have to see an iron or gold generating plant; and even if it is possible and "profitable" I assume it would quickly become boring to (literally) wait for plant to grow to get resources.

Anyway, on a general point of view, even if a player is generating resources like there is no tomorrow, I still fail to see how it will "break the game" for other players; Minecraft is not a competition-oriented game: you decide what your goal is and as long other players do not grief or kill you, they do not prevent you from digging underground and mine resources "by hand" or going out by night to hunt creepers with your bare fists.

I also recommend banning the nano suit, not just quantum armor. While not as obviously broken, I'm pretty sure that's either unbreakable diamond armor, or unbreakable diamond++ armor. It has to be recharged, yes, but this has no cost other than a trip to town.

A full (unenchanted) Diamond suit give 80% damage reduction, a full nano suit give 90% damage reduction BUT I suspect diamond suit durability is superior to nano suit electric charge (i.e. When fighting, a nano suit will be discharged long before a diamond suit break) and the diamond suit can be enchanted, while the nano suit cannot. So basically, as far as I can see, it is a choice between possible enchantment and superior durability with one way use vs. multiple uses with less "autonomy".

Added note: I did not tested it but some sources indicate a diamond suit can be improved up to 98% damage reduction through enchantments.

-Sam

2

Minecraft / Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion

« on: October 24, 2012, 09:19:19 am »

I haven't tried more paintings, but it could be neat. I do like to decorate!

Your ban list has a lot of the same things I was going to propose. Pretty much anything red matter is kind of insane. Even the armor, while not necessarily game breaking, is.. a little much.

I'd also say any auto-miner of any sort is a bad thing. Not only does it sort of.. take some of the fun out of gathering resources, but it's just plain ugly. Giant 9x9 holes to bedrock suck.. or the ones like Sonya's drill mining out the bottom 20 squares above bedrock is bad too. On a real world, and all that.

Agreed, but I will point the difference between BC autominer - which is basically a big hole driller - and IC Miner, which only target ore blocks in a specific range around a vertical axis. I also point that Sonya's (complex) mining machine is based on RP tech (frame, frame motors and block breakers if I am right), and banning that would mean banning a nice feature of the RP mod. I would personally prefer to rely on players self-discipline to limit the use of that kind of machine to specific areas (i.e. not digging under your neighbor's home), than to limit everyone freedom.

As for the dimensional anchor.. why even use it though? I think that thing looks unstable as hell, and a problem with it is.. if it DOES end up breaking the server, it's one of those things we may not be able to unbreak.

Why keep the same seed, Samm? Keeping the stuff that was built is one thing, but.. eh. I don't entirely like the seed we have. Snow and ice was cool ( I built a castle out of the stuff! ) but it's not entirely friendly for newbies.

As I pointed in my first post (test 5), the spawn zone can be moved to any place we want, and according to this regenerated partial map (based on the current seed) there is already a more friendly area west of the original spawn zone (x=0, z=0). I can also generate an extended map of this area if we want to look around; checking the current full map (may not display with IE, try another browser) would already give us an idea of what could be regenerated further out. One of the feature of Minecraft is the near limitless of the world, there will always be a friendly area available if we mind to look around.

Plus I believe that seed isn't that seed anymore anyway.

As I also pointed in my first post, the test I made (test 2) seems to indicate the current seed allow to regenerate the same landscape in most of the world (check the partial maps: Current - Regenerated). Landscape is the same around nearly every built areas, with the exceptions evoked in my first post (which both have a solution in case of a transfer).

My hypothesis for differences is that - at some point - the seed processing got changed between MC versions, chunks generated with an older version sometimes do not match newer chunks; that explain why most areas looks the same but with differences in some areas. For the biome difference around Carole mountain, I assume the change of MC version could as well alter the biome type in certain areas.

Finally, if we go for a new seed, then we would better go for a full restart (which I would not like) otherwise it is nearly certain that the area around "preserved" chunks will not match the preserved chunks (biome, terrain level, coastline, caves, etc...). If we go with cutting/pasting specific parts (not chunk-based), unless there is a map editing guru around here, the only existing structure which could be easily transferred would be Trerro's castle, as it is the only one which do not "merge" with the landscape (easy cut/paste); try using MCEdit 3D interface and you will see what I mean.

-Sam

3

Minecraft / Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion

« on: October 23, 2012, 12:52:53 pm »

Now my two cents for the other topics:

1. Ban list:

Basically I (naively) question myself on the utility of a strict ban list: Since the server is not PvP and Minecraft game is not competition-oriented, as long as you do not nuke other player's stuff or bash/deface what they built (i.e. griefing) or lag the server, I think it is your own problem if you choose to use or not to use this or that stuff.

That put aside, here is what I think is...

...overpowered:

- (IC2) Quantum Bodyarmor, Boots & Leggings

- (IC2) Nano Saber; altough I would reconsider if we add MoCreature ogres for example

- (EE) Red Katar (more powerful than Nano saber)

- (EE) Gem Armor (all pieces)


...overpowered but has alternative use:

- (IC2) Quantum Helmet; allow underwater breathing. If scuba helmet and compressed air cells (which would be more realistic) are not available - as it this the case in the current server -this is the only non-enchanted alternative to stay longer underwater. (Gem armor helmet has the same ability, but is even more overpowered)


...a bit overpowered but still can be fun to use:

- (EE) Red/Dark Matter Armor, Tool and Weapons; especially if we add aggressive mobs from MoCreatures, like ogres, werewolves, sharks, etc...

- (EE) Various "power items"


...not so overpowered and that I would personally prefer NOT be banned:

- (IC2) Jetpack (either standard or electric); simplify greatly the building near cliffs

- (IC2) Diamond Drill; simplify greatly custom tunnel/large cave digging.


2. Current world fate:

I already wrote it in (lenghty) previous post. In short:

- Keep the same seed
- Preserve the least possible amount of chunks (player's homes and other built areas)
- Re-pop (regenerate ores/dirt/gravel/etc...) in preserved chunks if the player who has his/her stuff in it want it
- Delete and regenerate every other chunk
- Relocate spawn zone to any place we consider appropriate


3. Additional mods:

- MoCreatures looks nice, if it is compatible I am OK with it (but we may keep this in mind when discussing point 1)

- Anyone ever used "More Paintings" mod? (or am I the only one to decorate my home?)


4. Gameplay/Server settings:

No PvP = Ok for me (I prefer PvE)
Med difficulty = Ok for me (please do not downgrade to "easy"...!)
Server privacy = Current settings ok for me


5. Miscellaneous

The second I saw the Dimensional Anchor wiki description, I thought about server stability... What about "soft" banning it for now? (i.e. agreeing not to use it before testing server stability without it)

-Sam

4

Minecraft / Re: [October '12 Discussion and Vote] Tekkit + McMMO - Discussion

« on: October 22, 2012, 01:57:13 pm »

I made some test locally on my laptop (did not changed ANYTHING on the CC MC server), starting from an exact (local) copy of the current CC MC server, here is the results of my testing:

Test 1: Installing a brand new 1.2.5 server with MCForge, Redpower and IC2 installed as mods, copying the CC server world to it. I then started the local server and navigated the world in-game.

Result: works fine, Mystcraft and Buildcraft blocks and items just vanished from the world, without conflicts as it seems.

Test 2: Installing a brand new 1.2.5 server with MCForge, Redpower and IC2 installed as mods, copying the CC server world to it but with all regions files deleted (to force a regeneration with the same seed). I then started the local server and navigated the world in-game.

Result (same world portion):

Current Map
Regenerated Map

Test 3: From a full copy of CC MC server, trying to delete chunks from the world: Using MCEdit, I selected chunks and used the "prune" command (prune = erase everything but the selected chunks). I then started the local server and navigated the world in-game.

Result: the selected chunks were correctly preserved (including chests content), all other chunks are regenerated as we navigate around, most landscape is the same (using current seed). There is some difference (check the maps of test 2 for comparison) but if the preserved chunks are carefully picked, it should not be a big problem assuming we keep the same seed.

Test 4: From a full copy of CC MC server, trying to "re-populate" (MCEdit "re-pop" command) some chunks with resources: Using that command, it is possible to regenerate the ore blocks within a chunk.

Result: In the selected chunks, some non-empty blocks are replaced by ore (including mods ores!), gravel or dirt blocks; there may be more changes, but I did not noticed anything else.

Test 5: From a full copy of CC MC server, changing the spawn coordinates using NBTExplorer software: I updated the level.dat file by setting spawn coords to 0,66,0 (x,y,z coords).

Result: After deleting some player data files, I was able to force a respawn (just as if I connected for the first time to the server) and i correctly respawned in the vicinity of (x=0,z=0) so it seems to work.


Note that every map editing was made at the chunk level and by deleting chunks from an existing world. The reason is I felt the MCEdit 2D interface to be less cumbersome to use; the 3D interface allow to make custom selection (i.e. any volume of blocks) but the world must be navigated in 3D, which take a bit of practice to do. As time was the essence, I needed a quick way to do testing, so I stayed at chunk level.



Test conclusions:
-----------------

From test 1: It seems that removing mods would not cause the map to become invalid, as the affected blocks and items will simply be removed at the first chunk load, so there seems it is not necessary to restart from scratch because of mods removal.

From test 2: It looks like the current seed would allow to regenerate most of the current terrain, which mean that in most case we would be able to keep or transfer array of chunks without having terrain discontinuities. Exceptions are (so far):

- Carole's mountain would be regenerated as a desert (biome change) but the coastline is the same, which mean that if she want it to be preserved, we can keep the whole biome as it is (outlined area with 0range "o" in the following image).

- Large forest around my "Forest Lodge" would be regenerated as hills, with a different coastline pattern BUT there was already a terrain discontinuity in that zone; and regenerating the affected chunks (outlined area with black "x" in the following image) would solve it. I think I am the only one with something built in that area and I have no problem having that stuff deleted.

Reference image (Marked)

From test 3: Deleting chunks from an existing map is possible, as long they are carefully picked to make sure there is no discontinuities between preserved and regenerated chunks. In the image above, I marked all the chunks I picked during test with an "o" of any color; that include: Trerro's Castle, Carole's Mountain, my "bubble",my "Sky Dome" under construction and parts of the railway I built.

From test 4: Resources (including those from mods) can be regenerated in preserved chunks, there could be some unexpected changes as dirt and gravel can be placed as well. I think repopulation should be done only on selected chunks, case by case, according to the "chunk owner" decision.

From test 5: Spawn point can be changed! Which mean it is not necessary to restart the whole world to change its location, we can set it at any other place.



Final words:
------------

According to the test I made, if we keep the same seed, it is either possible to preserve the whole world and "re-pop" resources only OR to preserve only the chunks where something has been built and re-pop resources in those chunks (other will be regenerated WITH new resources)

It is also possible to create a new world with the same or a different seed but I did not tested the copy/pasting functionalities of MCEdit yet, it seems to be more flexible than working with chunks, but also more complex. Also, we must keep in mind that using a different seed could result in having biome/terrain/cave discontinuities around preserved structures.

In light of that, my choice would be to keep the same seed and edit the existing map to preserve only the chunks where something has been built (basically choice A with the least possible amount of preserved chunks). That way, people who want to keep what they have built will not "deface" the landscape since regenerated surrounding chunks will match preserved ones, and people who want to start from scratch will have modded resources available near the spawn point. We could also imagine to move some structures at a different place in the same world, but I do not have any clues on the feasability of that on a large scale.

-Sam

Added note: A full map of the world is also available, but curiously, the image does not show up on IE browser...! (I used Waterfox to display it)

5

Minecraft / Re: A server nuking

« on: October 12, 2012, 04:17:22 pm »

About the choice:

Taking Trerro point into account (7 peoples on 3 servers = 3 dead servers), I would favor a solution with 2 servers at most.

My preference would go to choice 3, any combination of server including that one would suit me (1+3 would be the more logical). For me, choice 3 offer the most freedom to everyone: If I understand both mods correctly (Tekkit & McMMO), efficiency can be attained either by technology or by XP.

Choice 1 would be interesting, although I am not sure I would spend a lot of time there (it looks very complex to survive only); nevertheless, I would admit other players can enjoy it and would join them with pleasure during server rotation. So that would be my second choice if we do server rotations.

I discard choice 2 in favor of choice 3 as it offer more possibilities and freedom than choice 2, assuming the server is stable enough to use Tekkit and McMMO.

I discard choice 4 in favor of choice 3 as choice 4 does not address the initial demand of this thread (adding McMMO). Also, McMMO does not seems to be a server resources eater and can be removed easily if we do not want it anymore later.


About server nuking:

I do not pretend to be a MC guru, but it seems some parts of the current world cannot be regenerated with matching terrain using the current seed. Sonya and I tried to regenerate the world from scratch on a local session and while most parts looks very similar to current world (Trerro castle and lands south of it for example) others are completely different (Carole carved-out mountain is replaced by a desert, while the coastline looks similar).

This would mean - even if we find an easy & bug-free way to transfer parts of the world - that some parts will not be transferable unless taking a significant amount of time and efforts to do it. Knowing that, if the final decision is to restart from scratch, I would not oppose it as I probably could not transfer stuff myself and it would not be honest to force someone else to do what I would not or cannot do. As I said before, I am far more concerned by a stable server with mods I enjoy than by conserving all that I built.

If we do try a "property" transfer, the best solution would probably be to (in-game) remove non-vanilla stuff from transferred parts, and add them back later using creative mode if they cannot be easily rebuild.

-Sam

6

Minecraft / Re: A server nuking

« on: October 08, 2012, 09:07:13 pm »

IMHO, Minecraft is not RPG, even if latest version seems to take that direction; I mean there is a lot of online RPG out there, most if not all with better look and graphics than MC; but none that I knew allow players to alter the world like MC do. So I would feel sad to discard mod(s) that enhance the building aspect - which for me is its strong point - while trying to improve the RPG aspect.

I agree that the real issue is server stability, not overpowered mods; and anyway, MC is not a competition, if you do not like the stuff mods add, just do not use it, as long as the added mods do not strain the server and other player does not damage or trample what you built "the hard way", where is the problem?

About the currently added mods (in my opinion):

RedPower is a must; I am fond of redstone circuits and stopped implementing them just because of complexity; a single "T" flip-flop need 2x3x9 space for example, while in RP it is reduced to 1 block! That change everything, more complex circuitry can be more easely designed. If you add block cutting recipes and frame usage, that give a lots of possibilities for improving the look of buildings and designing moving things, like Sonya's "Beast". Also, if I am not mistaken, RP is compatible with a lot of other mods, so unless we determine it put a strain on the server, I would not remove it.

Industrial Craft contains some very interesting stuff; Jet pack make some building way easier to build when dealing with cliffs or high towers, electric drill make digging tunnels (a quite boring and repetitive task) way quicker and improved machines can save you a lot of time when building a big project in survival mode (iron or bronze for rail, stone for buildings, etc...). It also add Power management, which could be considered as a new challenge. Even if some electrical tools can be considered as overpowered, they cannot be built in a matter of minutes and you still need to have power sources (renewable if possible) to recharge them. Beside that, using the automated miner of IC in the overworld did not yet gave me "hundreds of diamonds a day", not even a hundred of them since the mod was installed.

Buildcraft I do not know it much, I did not used it a lot yet, so I cannot tell if it is redundant with RP or not.

Mystcraft I stopped using it as it seems it tend to crash the server when I use several linkbooks with short time interval in-between. On a side note, I find that creating ages is way too easy and too random, which result in creating a lot of "junk" ages until we find an age we fancy. The teleport functionality it provide is also too easy to set up, as long as you are a bit careful with what you do. I would not throw the stone to that mod, but as far as I remember I never saw a server crash before Mystcraft was installed; but after that, we started to have crash, even when soloing the server.

About McMMO:

Basically, as I understand it, it looks like turning MC into some kind of Elder Scrolls clone. I did not got hooked by MC because of its RPG content; while it could be fun, if it mean dropping all RP and IC functionalities, I would not favor McMMO.


About the nuking itself:

If the point is to make everyone start from scratch with no other excuse than "Things are too easy, let start again everything and do it the hard way", I am totally against it and would probably prefer to set up a server of my own (even if I have no experience about that) with a copy of this world if I am allowed to.

If the point is to solve the server stability problem, I am not against it, assuming we reach a compromise over which mods we keep and which one we drop; i.e. not dropping the one which cause little or no strain and let everyone decide what stuff he or she will use or not.

Personally, if it comes to dropping mods, I would prefer to keep RP, IC (maybe with some nerfing) and at least some functionalities Myst (teleport but a bit harder to set up), even if it mean using other - more compatible - mods.

That was my two cents

-Sam

Added note: In the case we do go through a fresh world creation, did anyone tested version 1.3.2? According to the release notes, it is said to be less demanding on the server.

7

Chaos Cluster / Re: Xvar

« on: January 01, 2012, 03:38:03 pm »

Maybe too simple but:

Xvar LE:

(10%) +2 Max Speed

Xvar SE:

(10%) +1 Cloak Speed

8

Chaos Cluster / Re: Xvar

« on: December 22, 2011, 06:59:14 pm »

Xvar Supernova:

(10%) Blinding Dash Acti (3 Charges - CD: 3) +6/+3 Controlled/Max Speed

Xvar Claymore:

(15%) +3 Max Speed & +1 Recharge